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	<title>Comments on: On secularism</title>
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	<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/</link>
	<description>All Things Bangladesh</description>
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		<title>By: Mohammad</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-18307</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-18307</guid>
		<description>Religion can be Secular too !!!!!!   :

The law minister ruled out the statement of a section of politicians that the 1972 constitution is against Islam as one of the four pillars of the constitution is &#039;secularism&#039;.

&quot;Islam itself is a secular religion as it acknowledges rights of every citizen irrespective of their religious faith, culture, creed and caste,&quot; the minister said.

The Financial Express / Friday , 17th July / 2009</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religion can be Secular too !!!!!!   :</p>
<p>The law minister ruled out the statement of a section of politicians that the 1972 constitution is against Islam as one of the four pillars of the constitution is &#8217;secularism&#8217;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Islam itself is a secular religion as it acknowledges rights of every citizen irrespective of their religious faith, culture, creed and caste,&#8221; the minister said.</p>
<p>The Financial Express / Friday , 17th July / 2009</p>
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		<title>By: rumi</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-18046</link>
		<dc:creator>rumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-18046</guid>
		<description>In practicality, this is a step back. Sending a Major General ( Esp a Master General of Ordinances) out as ambassador to countries like Australia, Thailand, Europe, Middle east is a form of forced retirement/ punishment. Sending to Burma would be the worst possible punishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In practicality, this is a step back. Sending a Major General ( Esp a Master General of Ordinances) out as ambassador to countries like Australia, Thailand, Europe, Middle east is a form of forced retirement/ punishment. Sending to Burma would be the worst possible punishment.</p>
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		<title>By: Udayan</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-18041</link>
		<dc:creator>Udayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-18041</guid>
		<description>Bangladesh names Anup Kr Chakma Ambassador to Myanmar

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=93947

Maj Gen Anup Kumar Chakma, serving as Master General of the Ordnance of Army Headquarters, was made ambassador to Myanmar. He was commissioned in the Infantry Regiment on December 25, 1977 and promoted to the rank of Lt Col in 1992.

He was promoted to colonel in 2000 and commanded a sector of the Bangladesh Rifles and an infantry bridge before being elevated to the rank of Brig Gen in 2001. Anup Kumar Chakma was later made Maj Gen in 2005 and appointed the Master General of the Ordnance of Army Headquarters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bangladesh names Anup Kr Chakma Ambassador to Myanmar</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=93947" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=93947</a></p>
<p>Maj Gen Anup Kumar Chakma, serving as Master General of the Ordnance of Army Headquarters, was made ambassador to Myanmar. He was commissioned in the Infantry Regiment on December 25, 1977 and promoted to the rank of Lt Col in 1992.</p>
<p>He was promoted to colonel in 2000 and commanded a sector of the Bangladesh Rifles and an infantry bridge before being elevated to the rank of Brig Gen in 2001. Anup Kumar Chakma was later made Maj Gen in 2005 and appointed the Master General of the Ordnance of Army Headquarters.</p>
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		<title>By: naeem</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17789</link>
		<dc:creator>naeem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 05:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17789</guid>
		<description>@Kgazi, There is room for improvement on secularism and minority rights in both India &amp; Bangladesh. As a Bangladeshi, my focus is Bangladesh, and that is where I would be effective in this struggle (although secularism struggles in all of South Asia are linked, not be negative comparison, but by positive example). I write about minority rights in Bangladesh: op-eds in Daily Star, and the chapter on Ethnic &amp; Religious Minorities (alternating chapters in alternate years) in Ain o Salish Kendra annual human rights report for last few years.  I have also written on Muslim minority rights in India, in context of security scare. Those have been published in Indian press.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kgazi, There is room for improvement on secularism and minority rights in both India &#038; Bangladesh. As a Bangladeshi, my focus is Bangladesh, and that is where I would be effective in this struggle (although secularism struggles in all of South Asia are linked, not be negative comparison, but by positive example). I write about minority rights in Bangladesh: op-eds in Daily Star, and the chapter on Ethnic &#038; Religious Minorities (alternating chapters in alternate years) in Ain o Salish Kendra annual human rights report for last few years.  I have also written on Muslim minority rights in India, in context of security scare. Those have been published in Indian press.</p>
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		<title>By: fug</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17782</link>
		<dc:creator>fug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17782</guid>
		<description>wow this thread is really going places.

secularism can mean noncommunalism, but its a proxy for other values also not excluding atheism. Generally in the non- european non-christian setting it is a socio-intellectual capitulation thats been well analysed and diagnosed by people like Ashis Nandy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow this thread is really going places.</p>
<p>secularism can mean noncommunalism, but its a proxy for other values also not excluding atheism. Generally in the non- european non-christian setting it is a socio-intellectual capitulation thats been well analysed and diagnosed by people like Ashis Nandy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohammad</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17781</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17781</guid>
		<description>Udayan , 

Communalism may have a religious contrast in south asia, but it may be racial or tribal in africa. So non-communalism may never have the same meaning as secularism. Gandhi was a firm believer of multi religious communities. He believed UNITY is possible between Muslims and Hindu&#039;s hence create a secular society which will of course be non-communal. Communalism with a religious contrast thrived under colonial rulers to support their divide and rule policy. It&#039;s ironic that Gandhi, Nehru and Jinnah ardent supporters of western secularism in fact sponsored religion into politics. Don&#039;t forget Jinnah too was frontline leader of Congress. Partition based on &quot; Two Nation &quot; theory does not support secularism. Post partition communal mayhem exposed nexus between religious extrimists and politicians. We like it or not politics has unbreakable link with religion. What we do not want is a theocracy. We definitely do not want government to be elected by religious clergy. That does not mean that religious values that shape up the societies will not influence government policies. We do not have a single secular country which is &quot;Godless&quot;. US constitution may not contain the word &quot;God&quot; in it&#039;s entire constitution but majority of it&#039;s states has divine refrence in their State Constitutions. South Carolina even has &quot; Protestantism&quot; as state religion !! Still secular !! &quot; Christianity &quot; is the official state religion of Norway and has a secularised society ! Global Peace Index rates Norway the most peaceful country in the world. So having &quot;Bismillah&quot; in our preamble may not have any adverse effect on secularism. That&#039;s of course if we adopt &quot;Secularism &quot; as a value not an ideology of politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Udayan , </p>
<p>Communalism may have a religious contrast in south asia, but it may be racial or tribal in africa. So non-communalism may never have the same meaning as secularism. Gandhi was a firm believer of multi religious communities. He believed UNITY is possible between Muslims and Hindu&#8217;s hence create a secular society which will of course be non-communal. Communalism with a religious contrast thrived under colonial rulers to support their divide and rule policy. It&#8217;s ironic that Gandhi, Nehru and Jinnah ardent supporters of western secularism in fact sponsored religion into politics. Don&#8217;t forget Jinnah too was frontline leader of Congress. Partition based on &#8221; Two Nation &#8221; theory does not support secularism. Post partition communal mayhem exposed nexus between religious extrimists and politicians. We like it or not politics has unbreakable link with religion. What we do not want is a theocracy. We definitely do not want government to be elected by religious clergy. That does not mean that religious values that shape up the societies will not influence government policies. We do not have a single secular country which is &#8220;Godless&#8221;. US constitution may not contain the word &#8220;God&#8221; in it&#8217;s entire constitution but majority of it&#8217;s states has divine refrence in their State Constitutions. South Carolina even has &#8221; Protestantism&#8221; as state religion !! Still secular !! &#8221; Christianity &#8221; is the official state religion of Norway and has a secularised society ! Global Peace Index rates Norway the most peaceful country in the world. So having &#8220;Bismillah&#8221; in our preamble may not have any adverse effect on secularism. That&#8217;s of course if we adopt &#8220;Secularism &#8221; as a value not an ideology of politics.</p>
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		<title>By: rumi</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17776</link>
		<dc:creator>rumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17776</guid>
		<description>Udayan,

&quot;Let me repeat the question I asked earlier. Are those non-secularists in Bangladesh who justify Bismillah in the constitution and having an official religion, happy to include invocations from other faiths in their constitiuion and have other religions share “state” status?...&quot; 

If you ask any sensible person, a well thought answer must have to be an emphatic YES. 

I guess, Bismillah above the preamble, i.e. before starting of the constitution and special mention of &quot; Almighty Allah&quot;, is an less hidden, more official and less hypocritic form of Western practices to give precedence to Christianity. When &quot; In God we trust&quot; is mentioned, it means the father God. Similarly christmas is an official holiday, not dewali, Chanukkah or Eid. 

The practice, I guess, is based on democratic values of privileg for the majority while ensuring the rights of minority. You practice the majorities religion nationally but do everything to protect the right of all others to practice what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Udayan,</p>
<p>&#8220;Let me repeat the question I asked earlier. Are those non-secularists in Bangladesh who justify Bismillah in the constitution and having an official religion, happy to include invocations from other faiths in their constitiuion and have other religions share “state” status?&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>If you ask any sensible person, a well thought answer must have to be an emphatic YES. </p>
<p>I guess, Bismillah above the preamble, i.e. before starting of the constitution and special mention of &#8221; Almighty Allah&#8221;, is an less hidden, more official and less hypocritic form of Western practices to give precedence to Christianity. When &#8221; In God we trust&#8221; is mentioned, it means the father God. Similarly christmas is an official holiday, not dewali, Chanukkah or Eid. </p>
<p>The practice, I guess, is based on democratic values of privileg for the majority while ensuring the rights of minority. You practice the majorities religion nationally but do everything to protect the right of all others to practice what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Udayan</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17773</link>
		<dc:creator>Udayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17773</guid>
		<description>I think most of us in South Asia who speak of &quot;secularism&quot; mean &quot;non communalism&quot;. Gandhi talked of &quot;Ram Rajya&quot; as a means to achieve a non-communal society, and was definitely not a secularist in the western sense of the word, but many Indians would regard him as &quot;secular&quot; in how the word is usually used in that part of the world. He was assassinated by a Hindu fanatic who disagreed with his non-communal stance, not with his religious views.

I don&#039;t think anyone is advocating a France or Turkey style Burkha or Turban ban for South Asia. 

However, secularism in the South Asian context also means pluralism, which doesn&#039;t just mean acceptance and tolerance of those different to the majority or those with power, it means empowerment and encouragement of those beyond the core to come forward and participate openly in all aspects of the state (and society) and to feel free to bring their identities with them. I think this is where the mental block for a lot of people starts.

At the recent oath-taking ceremony for the Indian cabinet, ministers were given the choice of how to approach the line which says &quot;I swear in the name of God ...&quot;. Some chose to just say &quot;I swear ...&quot; (there are several declared atheists in the cabinet), some invokved a Hindu phrase of their choice, and Sultan Ahmed said &quot;I swear in the name of Almighty Allah&quot;. 

Let me repeat the question I asked earlier. Are those non-secularists in Bangladesh who justify Bismillah in the constitution and having an official religion, happy to include invocations from other faiths in their constitiuion and have other religions share &quot;state&quot; status?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most of us in South Asia who speak of &#8220;secularism&#8221; mean &#8220;non communalism&#8221;. Gandhi talked of &#8220;Ram Rajya&#8221; as a means to achieve a non-communal society, and was definitely not a secularist in the western sense of the word, but many Indians would regard him as &#8220;secular&#8221; in how the word is usually used in that part of the world. He was assassinated by a Hindu fanatic who disagreed with his non-communal stance, not with his religious views.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is advocating a France or Turkey style Burkha or Turban ban for South Asia. </p>
<p>However, secularism in the South Asian context also means pluralism, which doesn&#8217;t just mean acceptance and tolerance of those different to the majority or those with power, it means empowerment and encouragement of those beyond the core to come forward and participate openly in all aspects of the state (and society) and to feel free to bring their identities with them. I think this is where the mental block for a lot of people starts.</p>
<p>At the recent oath-taking ceremony for the Indian cabinet, ministers were given the choice of how to approach the line which says &#8220;I swear in the name of God &#8230;&#8221;. Some chose to just say &#8220;I swear &#8230;&#8221; (there are several declared atheists in the cabinet), some invokved a Hindu phrase of their choice, and Sultan Ahmed said &#8220;I swear in the name of Almighty Allah&#8221;. </p>
<p>Let me repeat the question I asked earlier. Are those non-secularists in Bangladesh who justify Bismillah in the constitution and having an official religion, happy to include invocations from other faiths in their constitiuion and have other religions share &#8220;state&#8221; status?</p>
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		<title>By: tacit</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17765</link>
		<dc:creator>tacit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17765</guid>
		<description>I definitely don&#039;t like secularism. On the other hand, I think non-communalism is a fundamental qualification for any politician to possess before he becomes a serious candidate for holding public office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely don&#8217;t like secularism. On the other hand, I think non-communalism is a fundamental qualification for any politician to possess before he becomes a serious candidate for holding public office.</p>
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		<title>By: Faraaz</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17751</link>
		<dc:creator>Faraaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17751</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that most people on this blog, who would like to be seen as &quot;liberal, enlightened, secular intellectuals&quot; judge the secularism of a nation based on isolated incidents of a Sikh PM and a Muslim President or how many Muslim/Christian lawmakers are there in the Parliament. This is a gross understanding of secularism in its original form. Barring upper, elite so called intellectual class, I dont think we in Bangladesh have failed to uphold secularism at all. While this elite is busy arguing about statistics, historical development of secularism, Bismillah in the constitution so that they look a bit more educated and intelligent and liberal, the masses of Bangladesh, who do not have such pretensions have gone ahead and shown the way forward. The vast majority of people in Bangladesh do not discriminate based on religion. In the road side tea stalls, drivers, guards, peons all go to have tea and a nice chat even if the owner of that tea stall is a Hindu. I have seen this happen, and thats what gives me hope. 
Number of Muslim MPs, Hindu MPs (in the case of Bangladesh) mean nothing if criminals like Narendra Modi in India and Haji Selim in our case are given a clean chit just because they belong to the ruling party. The problem in this part of the world is not so much of secularism but more of justice or the lack of it and lack of accountability of the Government. There media in our case is full of such pseudo intellectuals who would rather debate on statistics and bismillah rather than grill the government on its actions, and serve the rights of the people to know. 

According to these pseudo intellectuals, our Father of the Nation is also not secular because his surname is &quot;Rahman&quot; which is a name of Allah as said in the Quran. That also undermines secularism right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that most people on this blog, who would like to be seen as &#8220;liberal, enlightened, secular intellectuals&#8221; judge the secularism of a nation based on isolated incidents of a Sikh PM and a Muslim President or how many Muslim/Christian lawmakers are there in the Parliament. This is a gross understanding of secularism in its original form. Barring upper, elite so called intellectual class, I dont think we in Bangladesh have failed to uphold secularism at all. While this elite is busy arguing about statistics, historical development of secularism, Bismillah in the constitution so that they look a bit more educated and intelligent and liberal, the masses of Bangladesh, who do not have such pretensions have gone ahead and shown the way forward. The vast majority of people in Bangladesh do not discriminate based on religion. In the road side tea stalls, drivers, guards, peons all go to have tea and a nice chat even if the owner of that tea stall is a Hindu. I have seen this happen, and thats what gives me hope.<br />
Number of Muslim MPs, Hindu MPs (in the case of Bangladesh) mean nothing if criminals like Narendra Modi in India and Haji Selim in our case are given a clean chit just because they belong to the ruling party. The problem in this part of the world is not so much of secularism but more of justice or the lack of it and lack of accountability of the Government. There media in our case is full of such pseudo intellectuals who would rather debate on statistics and bismillah rather than grill the government on its actions, and serve the rights of the people to know. </p>
<p>According to these pseudo intellectuals, our Father of the Nation is also not secular because his surname is &#8220;Rahman&#8221; which is a name of Allah as said in the Quran. That also undermines secularism right?</p>
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		<title>By: Kgazi</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17743</link>
		<dc:creator>Kgazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17743</guid>
		<description>naeem,    self-aggrandizing by India  and anti-BD accusations may make one think so,  but  I have read too many negative reports against India to believe that,  without  statistical reports.    

But who cares who the winner is  -  there is room for improvement on which I agree with you,  and will help all of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>naeem,    self-aggrandizing by India  and anti-BD accusations may make one think so,  but  I have read too many negative reports against India to believe that,  without  statistical reports.    </p>
<p>But who cares who the winner is  &#8211;  there is room for improvement on which I agree with you,  and will help all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: naeem</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17686</link>
		<dc:creator>naeem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17686</guid>
		<description>@Udayan, Many of us &quot;on here&quot; do like secularism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Udayan, Many of us &#8220;on here&#8221; do like secularism.</p>
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		<title>By: naeem</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17684</link>
		<dc:creator>naeem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17684</guid>
		<description>@Kgazi, India is more secular than Bangladesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kgazi, India is more secular than Bangladesh.</p>
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		<title>By: Udayan</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17673</link>
		<dc:creator>Udayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17673</guid>
		<description>Many of you on here don&#039;t actually like secularism.

So, if India really isn&#039;t more secular than Bangladesh, isn&#039;t that a good thing for you guys? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of you on here don&#8217;t actually like secularism.</p>
<p>So, if India really isn&#8217;t more secular than Bangladesh, isn&#8217;t that a good thing for you guys? <img src='http://unheardvoice.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kgazi</title>
		<link>http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/05/21/on-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-17668</link>
		<dc:creator>Kgazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unheardvoice.net/blog/?p=3365#comment-17668</guid>
		<description>naeem -   until then,  nobody should say India is more &#039;secular&#039;  than Bdesh.

Tanoy - glad you agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>naeem &#8211;   until then,  nobody should say India is more &#8217;secular&#8217;  than Bdesh.</p>
<p>Tanoy &#8211; glad you agree.</p>
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