Indo-Bangla relations
The Bangladeshi Foreign Minister recently visited India, and the Prime Minster is supposed to visit New Delhi shortly. This follows a highly publicised visit by the Indian Foreign Minister in February, after the new government took office in Dhaka, but before the Indian election. There are media speculations about a ‘package deal’ being negotiated resolve various outstanding issues.
There is no foreign relationship more important for Bangladesh than that with India. Therefore, whatever is in this deal (if a deal is indeed being negotiated), it is imperative that it is scrutinised carefully. And every conscious citizen — regardless of technical expertise, political affiliation, or access to the media — has a responsibility to participate in the discussion. Indeed, a discussion needs to happen in India too, because if Bangladesh develops a permanent antipathy towards India, the consequences will be bad for everyone.
Any discussion on this topic should begin with two points.
First, this need not be a zero sum game. Bangladesh’s gains do not have to come at India’s expense, or vice versa. India and Bangladesh are not locked in some Manichean, existential conflict. Win-win solutions are possible on all the issues.
Second, it is easy, and pointless, to spend endless amount of time in a dialogue of the deaf discussing how one country has never done the right thing by the other.
This post is an attempt to summarise the issues, with some tentative views. They are by no means exhaustive. Nor are they beyond debate. In fact, I am actively soliciting debate.
With the long introduction out of the way, over the fold are what I think the issues that need to be resolved.
Jyoti, good blog but too many issues, where to start.
May have been better to divide it into sections like Indo Bangla Relations 1, 2,3, 4,etc
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jyoti Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
KGazi, I thought about doing a series. But decided against it for two reasons.
1. There is some benefit in having all the issues at once. They are often interlinked. More importantly, the ‘big picture’ should allow the reader to put things in context.
2. I was afraid I’d start the series and not finish — blogs are an afterhour activity, and sometimes ‘real life’ becomes too demanding.
Now, please don’t let the number of issues deter you from commenting. The issues are still listed and numbered. Start whichever you feel the most strongly about.
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To me, serious negotiation was never initiated by any regime in the past. Than few of those negotiations were forced into the process historically fallen into deaf ears. Some deals were certainly done as a package offering but, not, I guess, from intellectual indulgence based on strategic policies to live upto our own interests.
To engage the politicians into the real dialoge, infact to force them, a real patriotic strong opinion in a concerted manner should be formed, before we win any negotiation. But I do not see or foresee atleast in near future that will evolve out of our existing culture and frame of mind.
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Issue #1, Water –
My feeling is Bangladesh is very naive and primitive about the whole science of water – how to share, reserve, utilize, control, distribute, dredge, purify, etc compared to India, where its treated as a resource from Bhagavan, and therefore given extreme interest & care. This results in India doing a lot of natl/intl covert and open planning and strategies on water (rivers & ground) – whereas BD seem to remain totally ignominous (unaware) and passive about whats happening under water!!
Had our govt, scientists and students not been permanently engrossed in ‘BS’ politics, they would have created massive national projects on water, esp in a WATER-based nation like BD-delta. With the absence of this WATER know-how and action, BD is at the mercy of India’s ‘river-sharing and water managing’ plans, which BD doesnt even know whether its coming or going.
What BD needs to do is start a new national 5 year goal called “RIVERINE BANGLADESH” parallel with ‘digital bangladesh’, and totally capture the issues involving water, as water is F A R more crucial to BD’s future & growth!!
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kgazi, water is a proxy for our national dignity.
its theft at present is symbolic for the continual rape of Bangladesh,
the lack of negotiating power a genuine ‘lajja’,
the lack of recognition of this ‘lajja’ is the lameness of the cowardly father who is not brave enough to end the pervert assaulting his daughter.
the mental slavehood of the father should not turn to stubborn tyranny, the caterpiller must do something to emerge a butterfly.
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Issue #2, Security -
India is a tough neighbor to have, as India has no friendly friends around its borders, it has poked ALL its neighbors for extremely petty items, and kept grudges against every one of them for lengthy periods, over tiny issues. Last week India claimed BD illegally “occupied 10 acres of land” in Assam. For a nation one-third the size of Asia, to make a fuss about ‘10 acres’ shows India’s love for picking small fights, without resolving them first.
The Kashmir issue is a classic example, which shows that India loves continuing neighborly fights forever! and RESOLVING neighbor problems is not thier cuppa tea. but to lengthen the problem forever!!
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” There is no foreign relationship more important for Bangladesh than that with India. ” – True , but is Bangladesh a priority for Indian foreign policy ? No. Do they take us seriously ? No.
Our extremely partisan politics prevents adopting a policy which may have continuity. Take for example of “Tipaimukh” episodes. We ourselves could not agree on one unified policy. This of course weakened our position. Politicization of every issue has damaged our interests. Our state minister of home affairs Mr. Tuku said yesterday that illegal imports of arms were sponsored by Bangladesh government !! Who is he working for ? His intention probably was to damage BNP’s image but has successfully ended up damaging Bangladesh’s interest. That’s what our standard is. It’s very obvious that RAW has successfully infiltrated nook and corners of our power bases and intelligentia. RAW plays a critical role helping implement India’s foreign policies. Our administration probably has more people looking after India’s interests than of our’s !!!
We have discussed enough about issues like water, security, borders, trade etc. We probably have enough data as well. What we need is consensus of opinion. Flying over Indian territory may not give us enough insight into their policies, we need meaningful engagement and a lot of patiotism !!!
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- Our state minister of home affairs Mr. Tuku said yesterday that illegal imports of arms were sponsored by Bangladesh government !! Who is he working for ?
Isn’t that kind of a mirror of what skills or loyalty our politicians have! How many protest you have seen of this! None – I guess.
Contrry think about this:
The then leader of call it separatist movement or shantibahini – Shatu Larma stayed in Calcutta and flew in to hold talks with BD Govt in Indian helicopter and then transferred to bangladeshi copter and after the discussion Mr. Larma would go back to calcutta.
Yet never once India agreed in open that they sponsored Shaniti Bahini ever. I won’t call it lying. I would call it diplomacy at its height and what a good politicians are to do when they are loyal to their country.
Mr. Tuku – puku has no concept of this. being in bangladesh Govt he is serving Indian interest. Valid question – why!
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kgazi Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
India creates friction with its own neighhbors, but plays VERY friendly to the neighbors ‘rivals’ creating viscious circles of Jilapir Petch!! eg India’s best friends are Israel (anti Pak), Taslima Nasrin (anti Islam), Shantu Larma (anti BD) and will give them all helicopter rides, but when it comes to its REAL neighbors (nepal, sikkim, bhutam, srilanks, bd pak) India gives them a royal SAARC !!
thats how India likes to operate.
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Hello Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 8:51 am
According to Chanakya-Kautilya statecraft, refer to Arthasastra, written by these two Indian philosopher, – “Your neighbor is your natural enemy state. The neighbor of your neighbor is your friend”
It was written some 2300 years ago.
Anyway, Our political masters have never heard of him I speculate. No wonder why Shantu Larma lived in Kolkata and led the insurgency of the Shantibahini in CHT.
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kgazi Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
which makes Burma an Arthashastra friend of India!
It is in our interests to have excellent relationships with India. The new Indian government has already made gestures in this regard. The political exploitation of the anti-Indian card has been very rightly rejected by the people in the last election.
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Jyoti, two issues are out what is your say on these?
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jyoti Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 4:53 am
M Haque, my views are in the post. I’d prefer to hear more from the readers. What are your views?
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Bangladesh has little leverage when it comes to having our way in a dispute with India except for involving the U.N. and other international bodies. India is now just too big of an international power for Bangladesh to confront it in any way.
So the only viable alternative for us is to have good relations with India at political levels and try to resolve our disputes through honest negotiations.
The main issue for India in regards to relation with Bangladesh is transit, successive BD governments have avoided taking decisive action on this hot potato issue in fear of being accused of “selling the country” to India.
In return for a comprehensive transit package for India we can ask for favorable terms in favor of issues like water sharing, better access for our goods and Indian investment.
Being patriotic is good but we must be pragmatic, our country remains in the shadows of our giant neighbour. But I am confident that if our political climate remains calm and our democracy continues to thrive we can surpass India in terms of Human development and economic progress.
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In the Gen Fahmi blog, Udayan said “…[Indian BSF meanness] isn’t an India issue, but one of policy and implementation in organisations like the military and police. Hence the repeated comparison with BD army in CHT. So this is not an India related discussion.”
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The (meanness) policy is made by either Indian BSF, Indian border residents, or whoever Indian involved in that policy, and Indian BSF carried out that policy. Therefore it MUST be an Indian related discussion. The ultimate authority responsible for such acts is none but Indian govt, and its their duty, if they intend to maintain good neighborly-relations with BD, that they MUST order immediate stoppage of such (Indian) policy.
Any non-action to stop such mean policy means India SUPPORTS such policy on one side, and demands “co-operation” from the other, an inconsistent foreign policy contrary to regional agreements.
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Udayan Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
My point was related to the questions/discussion on “where are the BSF and how does that influence them”, “why are they so mean” and the comparison – in the context of officers following orders – with a Nazi war criminal. Issues of conscious objection, ethics of following orders from those senior in hierarchy etc are a separate issue from India-Bd relations.
Of course BSF / border situation is an India related discussion. Feel free to do so here
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kgazi Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
“Ethics of following orders by Nazi war criminals” resulted in World War II, and BSF murderous behaviour has resulted in Bangladesh’s cautious mistrust of India.
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“So this is not an India related discussion…”
So if I understand Udayan says that it is the policy (of meanness) exercised by BSF, Indian Army as is generally done every where. Lets leave out other countries but talk about India of which he has better knowledge. So if BSF is killing Bangladeshi poor people whose cow might have crossed the border by mistake (after all border is not marked at every inch) and the poor farmer crosses the border without knowing and be shot at and be killed like a sitting duck, then despite the BSF executiong the order coming from atop (that must be indian govt / policy makers) is not an an india related discussion!
Don’t get the logic. But what I surely get is that BSF or for that matter Indian Army is actually not at fault. They just follow order. That oredr comes from indian high command. So the question to be asked: Is that a good neighbourly behaviour!
More importantly, what is the explanation of Shantu Larma living in Kolkata and leading (thanks to AL) the then Shanti bahini insurgency movement!
How on earth can we trust India when
- India can not give up 3 bigha korridor or at least sell it to us at whatever money price they want. i am sure bangladesh Govt would pay any amount to buy it. Will India sell it for reasonable reason! Not that it is unprecedented. Alaska was sold to US.
- Allows the leader of a separatist movement to reside across the border and sends him for negotiation by Indian helicopter!
- Constructs Farakkah! The result of which is known to all.
- Discourages smuggle in from Bangladesh but encourages smuggle out from India into Bangladesh! remember – what % of phencidyl comes from across border!
- If you don’t know how it can affect one country, read about Opium war conducted by west against China. Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
- Goes on to build Tipaimukh damn without ever discussing with downstream Bangladesh?
- Captures Talpotti once for all?
- Claims our sea land (see recent claim by India of claim on bay of Bengal)
- many more!
I understand our need to have relationship with India but that must not come at our cost but on the footing of win win for both. Being the powerful neighbour the responsibility of India is more than bangladesh.
They can show their good neighbourly gesture by selling only 3 bigha jomi matro to us as a first bigh step.
is that too big an ask for India to give up when bangladesh might be willing to pay any reasonable price?
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pradip roy Reply:
January 16th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Brother, can you sell any parts of your motherland ? probably no.Could your govt give us passage to go our enclaves. how can your respectable BNP party leader Mrs Khaleda Jia own 300 bhighas of land in our enclaves?( Brenden Whyte- Waiting for the Eskimo)
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Issue #3, Migration –
As long as humans need better living, there will be migration. Whether its from BD to India, India to BD, China to Alaska or Mexico to USA. There’s a popular mis-interpretation (propaganda?) in BD that, theres so much anti-hindu (anti-minority) harrassment in BD, that ‘millions have escaped to India’ and hindu population has reduced in BD since 1947!
Hindu pop may have reduced in BD, but NOT due to targetted anti-minority abuse. Fact is, millions MAY have migrated to India (hindus & muslims) for apparently better living, just as millions of Mexicans migrate to USA every year.
But question is how is India handling them? Are they convenient ‘untouchable’ foreigners available for petty jobs, ready to be “pushed-in” thru BD borders whenever the climate is bad, or are they eventually given asylum (as in USA) and treated as Indian citizens after 40 years of street-sweeping?
Knowing India’s foreign & domestic policy, these economically value-adding migrants are not just treated as 5th class citizen, but probably ALSO being used as a bargaining item on the table with BD for DEMANDS in exchange for water, transit, trade, SAARC, duties, visas, Tipai, gas, highway, and whatever India can think of. The demand is most likely “”give us all those items or else ….. we will ‘push-in’ your 50 million Bangladeshis back to Khulna, by train or on foot!! “”
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Borsha Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 5:37 am
Kgazi bhai,
I request you to read this article:
http://www.thedailystar.net/law/2008/07/01/opinion.htm
This is the main reason that hindu population in BD has dropped from 30% to 10%.
Hindus were declared as enemy of state so that bengali muslims can grab their property. you don’t think this is discrimination or minority abuse?
Look at the name of the eminent persons who are victims of this enemy property act and think about what common people of hindu origin have to face in BD.
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kgazi Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Borsha, thats a good article, and I still owe Naeem Mohaimen a response on VP act. But it shows how a bad law can affect citizens, even if its a law concerning Divided nationals of a Divided nation.
However, I dont think this is discrimination or minority abuse? It is abuse of property owners (land grabbing) by misuse of the law. In the article also, it says “Dr. Barkat does not think the land grabbing is a problem of ‘Hindu versus Muslims’ polarisation”
What I want to know also is HOW MANY OF THE so-called “30 million Bangladeshi immigrants” in India are muslims and how many hindus. With thta info we can see whether migration has been hindus only, equal hindu muslim. Or if its majority muslim, it will be clear that migration was not purely due to religious reasons, but economic also.
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Udayan Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 12:26 am
Elsewhere on this blog is a tribute to late Baul maestro Shah Abdul Karim. One of his most famous songs begins, “agey ki shundor din kataitam, gramer naojawan, hindu musalman …”. Did he make up that painful nostalgia?
Why do you call them “so called” [Bangladeshi immigrants]?
kgazi Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Udayan, India calls them “bangladeshi immigrants” [so called], many of whom are not even Bangladeshi, but from other border areas. Nothing to do with Baul gaan !!
Dear hello!!
You raise some trivial issues concerning India Bangladesh relation. Except for Farakkah none of these are major barriers to better India-Bangladesh relation.
Bangladesh and India share a very porous land border a large part of which remains unmarked. Whenever an innocent Bangladeshi dies in BSF fire it is a tragic event but this has never been regarded as a major barrier to better relations between the two countries.
You also mention Phencydil, I think it is our duty to discourage our youth from indulging in this addiction. I have yet to see our present or previous government launch an all out campaign to eradicate this menace from our society. We need to enact law specifically targeting those involved in the sale and distribution of phencydil giving judges the discretion to impose severe punishments like life imprisonment to Phencidyl peddlers.
The government also needs to conduct regular public awareness programme against this menace using the mass media, having drug awareness lectures in educational institutions and other means.
You also mention Talpotti, Tipaimukh etc. These are all issues which can be and will be deliberated by appropriate international bodies like the U.N. , there are numerous international treaties and guidelines in place to resolve these issues.
I don’t know how affected are you personally as a result of all the things you mention India is doing wrong. The border dispute between Indian/Pakistan and India/China are far serious than the border grievances we have.
One must also note that Bangladesh has a very hyperactive print media, they have contributed greatly to anti-indian sentiment. BNP as a party is also perceived to hold an anti Indian bias, they coined the term “look east” (away from India).
It is a fact that India is now a major world player, we must harness India’s role in the world stage to our advantage by having policies which brings us closer to India and not be preoccupied with petty grievances.
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hello! Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Arzu:
- Tin Bigha is a trivial issue. Would be interested what people living in dohogram and angorpota thinks.
- Giving up claim on Talpotti is a trivial issue when Bangladesh has meagre land and 8th largest population.
- The the Leader of Shantibahini living in Kolkata and directing the insurgency issue is a trivial issue!
- UN solves issue like Talpotti and Tipaimukh! Ki arr bolbo.
These are all pretty grievances! Right. LOL. Who are we talking for! Bangladesh!
Bless thou Bangladesh.
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kgazi Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
btw, India doesnt think ‘tin bigha’ is trivial either – and will keep plugging the BSF for decades on a lorai-kusti even for Aadha Bigha!!
It seems India has a big inferiority complex about Losing any property, whether its Kashmir, cricket or a Kattha of land (KKK !!). They dont want to feel DEFEATED in any exchange, forget the neighborly sportsman spirit. For India, WINNING is everything – probably a psycho-phobia from losing Pakistan in 1947 ?
And this losing-phobia has extended the 3rd world depression since ‘47 creating the bharat border battles in S.Asia.
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Udayan Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
How many countries in the world, big or small, would voluntarily give up territory and look at it in a “sportsman” like way?
kgazi Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 5:33 am
Britain gave up Hong Kong to China, Mexico gave up California to USA, and there are endless records, some for money, agreement, treaty, union whatever – but such transactions were RESOLVED voluntarily. But with India there is NO resolution, not from Indian side anyway.
Udayan Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:34 am
1. Britain returned to China territory that had originally been leased and was due for return. Not to have done so would have violated the terms of the original lease.
2. Mexico was forced to surrender California following the Mexican-American war
kgazi Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:50 am
So where is India’s “Regional cooperation” in Tin Bigha, and why are they finding it so hard to HONOR the Original agreement of 1974? Isnt this just another Kashmir, to be dragged on forever? Would India ever give back Hong Kong to China, despite agreement? Never. Seeing Tin Bigha & Kashmir calamity, India would drag HK also forever also, exactly the same way !!
[30-Nov-2004 VOA
Foreign Minister M Morshed Khan said in the Parliament that India and Bangladesh had signed the Land Boundary Agreement, popularly known as Indira-Mujib Agreement in 1974 and under the accord India was due to hand over the `Tin Bigha' corridor to Bangladesh to connect the northern Dahagram and Angorpota enclaves with the mainland. He said that although Bangladesh parliament had ratified the accord and implemented it in 1974, the Indian parliament was yet to ratify the pact, causing delay in handing over the corridor.]
http://www.voanews.com/bangla/archive/2004-11/a-2004-11-30-1-FM.cfm
“How many countries in the world, big or small, would voluntarily give up territory and look at it in a “sportsman” like way?”
Here is a solution then Udayan.
How about you give us back tin bigha (that is casing inhuman suffering for the people isolated by it) and we either pay you 10 (name it how many times you want times market value) or exchange tin bigha with any tin bigha that is contiguous to Indian Border or take more than that. 6 bigha, 9 bigha!
Alaska was sold to US by Russia if you you really want to know history and use it in your defense of India.
R u still justifying: “How many countries in the world, big or small, would voluntarily give up territory and look at it in a “sportsman” like way?”"
AND
Still want to claim yourself to be Good Neighbour!
By the way, why do tyou need this tin bigha! Can you EXPLAIN that! If not to use it as a leverage and put pressure on poor Bangladesh!
I really want to know WHAT USE YOU HAVE IT OF TIN BIGHA?
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I don’t think Tin Bigha (or New Moore Island / Talpatti) can be compared with Kashmir (or California/Mexico or Hong Kong) which is why these random analogies can be problematic.
I do agree with you that India has dragged its feet on ratification of the border demarcation with Bangladesh and while I don’t know the details of what is involved (ie, what is legally binding versus what was negotiated in 1974 but yet to be ratified) or the reasons (apathy/deprioritisation? bargaining tool? etc) I do feel it hasn’t been handled by India in a way to either generate goodwill or resolve genuine grievances.
On the subject of environment (eg Tipaimukh) or complaints about BSF at the border, I really hope BDs and Indians at a non-government level can engage more with each other – you will find plenty of Indians seeking to organize on these issues, and joint activism rather than working in silos may elevate this debate and have it heard by more who can actually influence things.
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kgazi Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 5:10 am
Thank you, Im glad you finally agree India hasnt handled this appropriately, and many of BD’s discontent with India is because of such discrepancies.
The comparison with Kashmir is valid, as it explains India’s tendency to drag neighbor issues and reluctance to give up properties in question, or find a resolution, wishing that the neighbor will one day give-up and leave.
You said “you will find plenty of Indians seeking to organize on [Tipai & environment] issues, and joint activism rather than working in silos may elevate this debate and have it heard by more who can actually influence things.”
Why not on Tin Bigha issues? thats a major concern for BD’s, and must be included in a JOINT ACTIVISM also. The reason most Indians dont even KNOW about TinBigha is cos of India’s hush-hush brushing aside approch to it, which needs to change, and activism must focus there too.
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bahahahahahaha
http://bdnews24.com/details.php?cid=2&id=143938&hb=top
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THe bottom line is that we have to take care of our interests first, that is our duty and privilege in being an independent country. If that means making deals with China, Saudi or even Pakistan to protect our immediate rights and priorities, we owe it to our people and those who come after us to do so. I disagree that India is our most important relationship – it doesn’t have to be and shouldn’t have to be. We shouldn’t be a prisoner of geography. England, for 300 years, went and conquered the world without paying heed to France or Norway, and we likewise should be investigating opportunities with countries as far afield as Australia and Canada rather than being dependent on whims of the country who happens to be our neighbor. If India was not on all sides of us, would we be so obsessed with her?
Also, we need to escape the trapping of our history. Part of our obsession with India is a product of our history, both regarding Paksitan (and the feeling that we have to therefore be overly sensitive with India), and also because of our feeling that w were held back as the Muslim middle class in Bengal. THose days are gone and we have moved on way more than that. Our middle class is way ahead of that in Calcutta, and we have proved to history that we have triumphed and propsered. Those feelings should not poison or burden our future strategies.
Let us not forget how we were born as an independent country – without the help or support of a single country in the world – so we do not need to bow our heads to anybody or anyone
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Like Prothom Alo, printing an article going aginst mohajot, it is fun for them.
What can be sum up from these 34 postings – no one has changed their position.
Whether it is about BSF shooting to kill, erecting of phensidile factories along the frontier, Teesta, Ganges, Kabodabad, our little export to India, destabilising BD, a 60:40 is common denominators. A small portion of our educated population only try to measure up things purely based on national interests. And these reflections are everywhere. Our mind set, thinking pattern purely focusing on glorifing or evolving around the two political camp’s leadership and their political positions and that ofcourse dominates our pscyche.
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Those who thinks what is there in the moribund delta or land of Talpatti, it is from where the sea boarder counts. so it is not few squire meters of land rather that leads to or create an unit in the international sea border measurement scale.
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To all the blessed ignoramuses who are saying that India should give up Tin Bigha – Tin Bigha has already been leased out to Bangladesh, perpetually, and has started to operate from 26th June 1992 (yeah, its been that long), and has remained open ever since, from dawn to dusk (6 AM to 6 PM).
Now if you would shovel your faces from the sand and say the magic word – ‘google’ – you may just learn a little bit more.
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jyoti Reply:
October 5th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
The reality from Tin Bigha:
http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2009-10-05/news/10087
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Mohammad Reply:
October 5th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
@ LaBong ,
” To all the blessed ignoramuses who are saying that India should give up Tin Bigha – Tin Bigha has already been leased out to Bangladesh, perpetually” . What you are saying is India hasn’t given away Tin Bigha , it has leased out Tin Bigha. That’s exactly what those ignoramuses trying to drive home. We handed over South Berubari, ratified in our parliament and India gained full Sovereignty over South Berubari. We have only limited rights over Tin Bigha Corridor. It’s done thru a protocol signed on 26th march 1992. Sovereignty over Tin Bigha Corridor vests in India. It is under Indian control and no wonder that ” has remained open ever since, from dawn to dusk ” !! Can India cancel the lease hold ? Of course she can. Can we get back Berubari ? Only fool will say yes !! Try entering Dahgram- Angorpota thru the corridor without bumping into Indian security and proving your identity ! Yes , they have a check post at the entrance. We gave up more than two square miles in exchange of a leasehold strip measuring 178 meters X 85 meters ! Do you know something we don’t know ? Pls educate us.
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LaBong Reply:
October 6th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
“Do you know something we don’t know ? Pls educate us.”
Keep reading.
“What you are saying is India hasn’t given away Tin Bigha , it has leased out Tin Bigha. That’s exactly what those ignoramuses trying to drive home. We handed over South Berubari, ratified in our parliament and India gained full Sovereignty over South Berubari…Sovereignty over Tin Bigha Corridor vests in India.”
India was never under any obligation to hand over the soverignity of Tin Bigha to Bangladesh.
Article 1.14 of Land Boundary Agreement between Indira Gandhi and Sk Mujib in 1974, popularly known as Mujib-Gandhi treaty, specifically states: “India will retain the southern half of South Berubari Union No. 12 and the adjacent enclaves, measuring an area of 2.64 square miles approximately, and in exchange Bangladesh will retain the Dahagram and Angorpota enclaves. India will lease in perpetuity to Bangladesh an area of 178 metres x 85 metres near ‘Tin Bigha’ to connect Dahagram with Panbari Mouza (P.S. Patgram) of Bangladesh.”
That should clear a lot of misconception.
“Can India cancel the lease hold ? Of course she can. ”
Which part of “perpetual” did you not understand?
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Mohammad Reply:
October 7th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Which part of “perpetual” did you not understand?
The part which is not clear to Sheikh Hasina too and she demands : ” ” In March, 1994 while visiting India, she met with the Prime Minister of India and discussed the issue of sharing of the Ganges waters and demanded a reasonable solution. She also demanded that the “Tin Bigha Corridor” should remain open for the citizens of Bangladesh round the clock.” – Page 2 / Biography of Sheikh Hasina , posted on http://www.albd.org
Perpetuity did not ensure our control over the strip and still gets mentioned in the house :
” Tin Bigha Corridor yet to be handed over to BD: Sahara
BSS, Sangsad Bhaban
Home Minister Advocate Sahara Kahtun told the House on Monday that the number of Bangladeshi enclaves inside the Indian territory is 51.
Replying to a question raised by ruling party lawmaker Sheikh Afil Uddin, she said the enclaves were not fenced by barbed wire.
Responding to another question from treasury bench member Mohammad Shahiduzzaman Sarkar, the home minister said Bangladesh handed over Berubari to India according to the India-Bangladesh Border Agreement in 1974.
But, she said, the Tin Bigha Corridor was not yet handed over to Bangladesh as the Indian Parliament had not ratified the agreement till to date.
The Bangladesh Today, 30th June 2009 “
Below is the Indian High Comm’s version of the JILAPIR PETCH that India has cooked on this TINY piece of land. If anyone can fathom out any meaning out of this “perpetual” cobweb, deserves the Gandhi award for Jilapi !!
The way I see it, India will make sure this cobweb remains tangled for a few more centuries, by the amount of petch added to it.
http://www.hcidhaka.org/tin_bigha.php
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LaBong Reply:
October 7th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
“Below is the Indian High Comm’s version of the JILAPIR PETCH that India has cooked on this TINY piece of land.”
That is a white paper on Tin Bigha, issued by GoI. Instead of making baseless accusitions why don’t you point out, which part of that white paper is ‘cooked’ up. Or has the truth so punctured your overtly bloated “blame-it-all-on-India” self delusional ego balloon that you are running around like head less chicken?
If anyone can fathom out any meaning out of this “perpetual” cobweb, deserves the Gandhi award for Jilapi !!
Be specific. Whats there that is so inscrutable? Or are you playing dumb?
The way I see it, India will make sure this cobweb remains tangled for a few more centuries, by the amount of petch added to it.
You are seeing it wrong. Consult an ophthalmologist.
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If India has agreed to terms regarding Tin Bigha, India must see those through – this issue should not be a bargaining chip whatever non-legal issues there may be. Does the opening of the corridor within the stipulated hours and the lease agreement not fulfil those terms?
Putting that to one side, I have a sincere question, driven in part by my lack of knowledge on this whole subject. Tin Bigha is a corridor separating only one Bangladeshi enclave (Dahagram/Angarpati). I understand that Bangladesh has over 90 other enclaves within Indian territory, totalling around 50 km2. There are also over 100 Indian enclaves within Bangladeshi territory, totalling around 70km2. Some of the enclaves of both countries lie within enclaves themselves, so there are situations where an Indian enclave is surrounded by a Bangladeshi enclave which itelf is surrounded by Indian territory, and vice versa. And most of these enclaves are extremely small, with the same problem of no infrastructure such as hospitals, schools (and often electricity or sanitised water).
So, why is the Tin Bigha issue the most publicized one?
And are the residents of the other enclaves – Indian and Bangladeshi – not suffering the same situation as outlined in the sources mentioned in this discussion and in the general media attention on Tin Bigha?
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Mohammad (October 7th, 2009 @ 8:32 pm)
Attempt to evade is noted, with much amusement, I may add. Also noted are, strawmen and goal post shifting.
The part which is not clear to Sheikh Hasina too and she demands…“that the “Tin Bigha Corridor” should remain open for the citizens of Bangladesh round the clock.”
Which part of her demands shows that she has complaints against the mode of transfer of Tin Bigha. Perpetual Lease was the mode agreed and accepted by both the parties to the treaty. Handing over sovereignty of Tin Bigha, to Bangladesh was never – I repeat, NEVER – a part of any treaty. Get over it.
Perpetuity did not ensure our control over the strip…
Your earlier argument was, that since it is a lease, India can cancel it on whim. ‘Perpetual lease’ ensures that it can’t do so. Now, that your earlier argument is defeated, you have merrily shifted your goal post, trying to somehow give the impression that you (Bangladesh) have some right (sic) to control Tin Bigha. Once again, nothing of that sort is present in any treaty that these two countries have entered into with regard to Tin Bigha. Control is always to vest in India. Now that’s another thing you should get over with, pronto.
Serial 2. of Lease Agreement between India and Bangladesh, 1982 clearly states that:
Sovereignty over the leased area shall continue to vest in India. The rent for the leased area shall be Bangladesh Tk. 1/- (Bangladesh Taka One) only per annum. Bangladesh shall not, however, be required to pay the said rent and the Government of India hereby waives its right to charge such rent in respect of the leased area.
…and still gets mentioned in the house
Who gives a rat’s rectum to what goes on in Bangladeshi parliament. But on second thought…
But, she said, the Tin Bigha Corridor was not yet handed over to Bangladesh as the Indian Parliament had not ratified the agreement till to date.
LIES, LIES, LIES and really really pathetic LIES. Now I know why Bangladeshis are so ignorant of Tin Bigha issue. Neither Mujib-Gandhi Agreement of 1974, nor Lease Agreement of 1982 requires India to relinquish sovereignty over Tin Bigha. For crying out loud, both the agreements are public documents and are available below:
http://www.hcidhaka.org/viewDocs.php
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Mohammad Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@LaBong,
A.
” Which part of her demands shows that she has complaints against the mode of transfer of Tin Bigha ?” – Are we debating Mode of Transfer ? I thought it’s really the TERMs of transfer.
Do you think her demand “Tin Bigha Corridor” should remain open for the citizens of Bangladesh round the clock.” is a compliment ?
B.
” Handing over sovereignty of Tin Bigha, to Bangladesh was never – I repeat, NEVER – a part of any treaty. Get over it.”
” Control is always to vest in India. Now that’s another thing you should get over with, pronto.”
- So what has been transferred ?
C.
Terms of Lease in perpetuity of Tin Bigha – Area , October 7, 1982
3. For the purposes stated in para 1 above Bangladesh shall have undistributed possession ( I think they meant undisturbed possession ) and use of the area leased to her in perpetuity.
4. Bangladesh citizens including police, paramilitary and military personnel along with their arms, ammunition, equipment and supplies shall have the right of free and unfettered movement in the leased area and shall not be required to carry passports or travel documents of any kind. Movement of Bangladesh goods through the leased area shall also be free. There shall be no requirement of payment of customs duty, tax or levy of any kind whatsoever or any transit charges.
Do they talk about controlled access ? NO, but what we have now is :
Letter of Foreign Secretary of India Implementing Tin Bigha Lease , 26 March, 1992
7. Indian traffic movement on the North-South road will continue as heretofore. Bangladesh traffic will use the East-West road in the corridor at alternate hours during the daylight period. However, exceptions will be made at the local level to the above arrangements in cases of emergency, such as natural calamities, movement of civil administrators and medical emergencies;
Yes, there are Jilapir patch !!
D.
” Now I know why Bangladeshis are so ignorant of Tin Bigha issue.” – It’s not ignorance, but sure we have been outwitted ! Mujib – Gandhi agreement was signed in 1974 , Berubari handed over expecting Tin Bigha in 1974, Terms of Lease ( Tin Bigha ) was signed in 1982 , Letter of Implementation issued 1992 , Dr. Dipu Moni and S.M. Krishna issues joint statement ” On outstanding land boundary issues, both sides expressed intent to resolve the Dahagram and Angarpota enclaves and the Tin Bigha corridor ( The Hindu / 10.09.2009 ) ” , if we follow the pattern first meeting may be in 2015 , Revision / Amendment may be issued 2035 , implementation 2055 ……… .. AND WE DON’T SEE THE GOAL POST !
[Reply]
LaBong Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 12:50 am
Are we debating Mode of Transfer ? I thought it’s really the TERMs of transfer.
Do you think her demand “Tin Bigha Corridor” should remain open for the citizens of Bangladesh round the clock.” is a compliment ?
Unbelievable. The complaint of the commenters to this blog post was that the big bad neighbor doesn’t give access to Tin Bigha. When pointed out that it has in fact been done quite some time ago, the goal post got shifted a little bit – but Tin Bigha has not been handed over to Bangladesh. When pointed out, that it was never meant to be and sovereignty was not to be given up by India, under no agreement, the goal post shifted once again – but how can we control Tin Bigha then. Again when pointed out, that control was always to remain vested in India, the goal post shifted again – but we don’t get access for 24 hrs. From implementation of agreement to mode of transfer of Tin Bigha to ‘terms of transfer’ of Tin Bigha. Learning as we go along, isn’t it? May be you should scroll up and read all the comments to learn what the debate was all about.
No wonder you ‘DON’T SEE THE GOAL POST’.
So what has been transferred ?
Right to use the India’s land, for transit between the mainland and the exclaves, which under normal circumstances would require permission of GoI – in the form of visas and other bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo.
Terms of Lease in perpetuity of Tin Bigha – Area , October 7, 1982
3. For the purposes stated in para 1 above Bangladesh shall have undistributed possession ( I think they meant undisturbed possession ) and use of the area leased to her in perpetuity.
4. Bangladesh citizens including police, paramilitary and military personnel along with their arms, ammunition, equipment and supplies shall have the right of free and unfettered movement in the leased area and shall not be required to carry passports or travel documents of any kind. Movement of Bangladesh goods through the leased area shall also be free. There shall be no requirement of payment of customs duty, tax or levy of any kind whatsoever or any transit charges.
Do they talk about controlled access ? NO, but what we have now is :
Letter of Foreign Secretary of India Implementing Tin Bigha Lease , 26 March, 1992
7. Indian traffic movement on the North-South road will continue as heretofore. Bangladesh traffic will use the East-West road in the corridor at alternate hours during the daylight period. However, exceptions will be made at the local level to the above arrangements in cases of emergency, such as natural calamities, movement of civil administrators and medical emergencies;
Yes, there are Jilapir patch !!
a. The term is ‘undistributed possession’ not ‘undisturbed possession’. Although my law is a bit sketchy (its been a long time since University), it means, that possession through lease can’t be imparted by any means, e.g. sub-lease.
b. Serial 4 is maintained in toto without deviation.
c. Serial 2 clearly mentions that sovereignty shall remain with India. That is enough to imply that control shall remain with India. Control is inherent part of sovereignty. It doesn’t require separate mention when even bigger right, a.k.a. sovereignty is already granted.
d. You, and members of your tribe, see a ‘Jilapir pach’ because you are trying to make sense of a legal document, without understanding the legal terms it entails.
It’s not ignorance, but sure we have been outwitted ! Mujib – Gandhi agreement was signed in 1974 , Berubari handed over expecting Tin Bigha in 1974, Terms of Lease ( Tin Bigha ) was signed in 1982 , Letter of Implementation issued 1992 , Dr. Dipu Moni and S.M. Krishna issues joint statement ” On outstanding land boundary issues, both sides expressed intent to resolve the Dahagram and Angarpota enclaves and the Tin Bigha corridor ( The Hindu / 10.09.2009 ) ” , if we follow the pattern first meeting may be in 2015 , Revision / Amendment may be issued 2035 , implementation 2055 ……… .. AND WE DON’T SEE THE GOAL POST !
Read the white paper issued by GoI. You will know why it took so much time.
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